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In this episode, Marlo Nikkila joins me to talk about creating space and walks us through a powerful exercise.

So business has been “Western medicine” for me for years, you know like I was resisting the way of being in business. And so I’m actually practicing how did it go through cancer, and how can I actually do that in my business.

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Hello and welcome to Retreat and Grow Rich the Podcast.

I am here with the beautiful, fabulous Marlo Nikkila and we are going to be talking about energy and how to keep your energy clear when you host retreats, but in life in general.

Marlo is, first of all, absolutely fabulous. I know her heart, I know her spirit, and I know her commitment in the world. And I’ve watched her continue to step into that commitment. So, I just want to let you know if you’re listening, first of all, take a deep breath. You are in good hands. You are in healing hands and we’re going to go on a journey together today.

She teaches healers how to be peaceful, clear, and magical by gently releasing emotions that are stuck and opening their hearts and minds to what’s possible for themselves and those they serve. She’s the creator of the Peaceful Magic Planner and hosts Peaceful Magic Retreats for healers at her own sanctuary in her home with her hubby Dewayne.

So I have had the pleasure of knowing both Marlo and Dewayne and watching this journey unfold to where you guys, you know, you just bought this house with this vision and you’ve made a lot of moves in your life because you just got the vision, or the hit, and followed the “God breadcrumbs,” so to speak, and made the change. So, I think, let’s start there with that decision to say, “you know what, I’m feeling called to lead retreats, I’m just gonna go for it. We’re going to buy this space, we’re going to create it in the magic that we see possible, and go for it”. I haven’t caught up since it’s all been complete so.

Marlo Nikkila: Gosh, you know it was a couple of years ago Dewayne retired from the military and we moved to Portland because that was really pulling us. And after, I mean, I just had the sense that I really wanted space, and to do retreats with people, and we were living in a co-housing community at the time so I thought, “oh I could do this, because there’s guest rooms there…” and then I realize that that’s not the energy that I wanted to immerse myself in.There’s just too many other energies happening.

And so I started looking at different properties and things and Dewayne-it took a while, he calls himself the big bus. I’m the sports car. It took him a while to come on onboard, but when he realized what he really wanted to do is take care of land and do, just kind of be in the background and really taking care and holding, like being in that beautiful container for people, then it just, this property showed up, and we said yes. And, you know, it’s kind of morphed, because at first, Dewayne needed it to be a bed and breakfast, and I knew that that’s not the energy I wanted, with the revolving door.

So I had to be really clear and firm in my knowing that this is a retreat space. And then, most recently, I made the decision to have it be for my retreats only, which was a really big moment of clear commitment to what I’m doing here, because we were letting other people use our space which is great and I loved doing that too, but it was just like, “no, I’m here to do my stuff.” And just, it has been amazing and just with him and my, our partnership and what we’ve kind of had to move through. I mean you witnessed that because we were at the very beginning when we just started working with you. So it’s been an amazing journey and I just love it so much.

Darla LeDoux: I am imagining a lot of people can relate to having the partner who is the bus and then being the sports car. So I think we’ll circle back to that. That’s feels really good for people.

I think it’s really interesting, you know, that he wanted it to be a bed and breakfast, and I’m assuming that’s a financial commitment, right?

Marlo Nikkila: Purely from fear.

Darla LeDoux: Like, how many people can we move through here as quickly as possible? Yeah. And then even that decision to say no, it’s not open to just anybody, and now moving to it’s only open for me and my people, there’s a lot of faith in that and I think that those decisions likely really connect to the topic today about mastering your energy so you can hold this sacred space, but can you talk a little bit about the decisions to focus like that?

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah, I mean it was a really recent one because it was such a glaring thing. I had been opening up meeting other healers in town…

Darla LeDoux: Well, it was recently moved to just yours, but you knew at the beginning like “this retreat space,” right, “this is a sacred space.”

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. You know for me it was just a knowing and I just had to, like, honor that knowing. Like it actually wasn’t, it didn’t feel like a choice to me. Like when we- like I kind of acquiesced to like ok, I’m willing to explore bed and breakfast, but we’re not getting queen beds, we’re getting twin beds. You know, like, I knew very clearly this is moving into a retreat space, but I was trying to also allow Dewayne to move through whatever he needed to to get to that comfort, knowing where I was. And and so very quickly after that, it’s like, “yeah, I don’t want a bed and breakfast.” He came to that on his own with me just being so firm and clear that this is what I’m doing and this is the energy I’m holding space for. So it felt like I was more of what’s the word, it’s not coming to me, it just slipped- but that’s what I’m here to do.

Darla LeDoux: Yeah, like you had this clear vision that you’re holding. And it sounds like trusting that because it’s so clear and certain that he would get on board.

Marlo Nikkila: Right. Yeah. And it kind of flipped recently in the sense that I was still open to other people doing their things here, and there as well, he was asking like all details about how much I would charge for spending the night, for somebody who wanted food, what was the day use. And it just made me realize I don’t want to have those conversations, like, I don’t want to know that.

And so I was talking to Dewayne about it and he actually said “Marlo, what are you doing? I thought we were done with this. I thought we were going to do your stuff.” And I realized it was my own fear. I’m like well what if it doesn’t work out? What if my retreats don’t continue to take off like they have been? And then he was like, “then we’ll move and sell the house. Like, that’s not our plan B.” Like, “oh, thank you for coming around and holding that for firmly for me.

Darla LeDoux: Wow. Yeah, I love that.

Marlo Nikkila: It was beautiful.

Darla LeDoux: So talk a little bit about, you know, I know you’ve done Energy Medicine Yoga, you teach that you’ve been- as long as I’ve known you- cultivating your personal energy as something that’s the most important thing. And this interview is part of a series about what I call RICH entrepreneurs, the Right-brained, Intuitive, Connected, and Heart-centered, or those soft skills. And, you know, I started, I wrote Retreat and Grow Rich with the nod to Think and Grow Rich, right. Knowing that people who understand that it’s about mindset first will get that reference, but RICH has evolved into this acronym because to be truly connected and trusting your soft skills in the world and that those have value, to me that changes the conversation on the planet.

So I know that you market energy. And, you know, a lot of people come to me and they say “well, you know, you can’t-they’ve had 18 coaches tell them you can’t you can’t sell transformation, people don’t want to pay for that.” Which to me is very old school thinking and we’re in this RICH Revolution, this time when we’re changing to really valuing what’s true for us, as opposed to, you know, the things that we’ve just traditionally valued. Right. Like taking it out of hand like, “oh you can’t sell transformation.” Yeah.

So I know for me that’s what I pay the most for always. So how has it been for you mastering your own energy and really creating that in your space? And then, you know, what’s been your experience with marketing that?

Marlo Nikkila: So many great questions. So with my own practice, I feel like I needed to be very intentional about where I lived. So that’s one reason we chose to live in a smaller community in nature and just being immersed and surrounded by that and just slowing my life down. And so that was really important.

And what’s been great about the Energy Medicine Yoga practice that I have, is that it’s allowed me to notice that all the emotions that I have are just energy and to let them kind of have space to move- because it wants to move, energy wants to move. So for so long, I was very stagnant and not moving energy, so it just gives me, in this practice, doing that for myself.

And I know with, I guess a year and a half ago, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and that was where I actually got to see that practice of deep surrender, deep trust, and just knowing that I get to choose how I’m going to experience whatever I’m experiencing and I got to really spend time with “what am I resisting here” and Western medicine was one of the things I was resisting. But once I could soften and surrender and be in harmony with that then I was able to, like, heal in a really fast and potent way.

I mean my experience four months and I was done, and I just had amazing people. And so for me, it’s been about like now leaning into what am I resisting. When fear, or whatever, wants to show up I let it show up, like I’m not resisting even those emotions or energies.

And for me, like, you know with the whole marketing, I had to like take how I experience cancer, which was in a very peaceful, magical way and I actually, really as hard as it was I really enjoyed that journey, like it was really significant and actually quite easy, which is kind of surprising to say around the C word. But it wasn’t even resisting cancer like I didn’t even resist the C word. And I also, in that moment, made the commitment to never make a decision out of fear and just really spend time with whatever I was doing, so I can have that clean, conscious choice.

And I know, in rereading your book, you even have activity in there to help people get to that conscious choice. So reading it like, “oh, I do that,” but it was just so clean and so clear and so now I know what that feels like, and that’s kind of what I spend time doing

And so business has been “Western medicine” for me for years, you know like I was resisting the way of being in business. And so I’m actually practicing how did it go through cancer, and how can I actually do that in my business.

Darla LeDoux: Do business like cancer.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. And really business for me, because I’ve been doing it for so long, struggling with what you just spoke about- people telling I couldn’t speak about the soft skills and I had to be like, do it this typical, traditional way- it’s been almost like a chronic illness, you know, of beliefs that I’m having to work through and, you know, all of that stuff. Where cancer, it was easy, because I didn’t have any background around that. I didn’t even have a lot of exposure of going into hospitals and things, because I’ve been really healthy, so I didn’t go in with a lot of stuff. So I could actually be in my own energy a lot easier.

Darla LeDoux: And so you had less preconceived notions about cancer than you did about business.

Marlo Nikkila:  Yes.

Darla LeDoux: So cancer was easier than marketing.

Marlo Nikkila: I know isn’t that crazy, but yes I had to really unlearn a lot.

Darla LeDoux: Marlo talk a little bit about non-resistance in this journey, you know, and what was it like for you- and we’ll come back to the business part- but what was it like for you getting that diagnosis, and what was your process to getting to non-resistance?

Marlo Nikkila: Well thankfully I had this practice of deep peacefulness and being- and that’s also when we were having a fire really near our home so I had just finished a retreat. So talk about each retreat offering or transformation for the retreat leader- I get that every time.

I think thankfully I was in that space of just deep gratitude and amazing energy knowing that the fire is coming towards our house and we may even lose our home, and then a week later getting diagnosed with breast cancer was like, I was able to just be more present with it all. So I think that’s a big piece of it.

Darla LeDoux: Because you were already very present.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. And filled up. You know, it’s like, if that is the only retreat I ever did I felt like it was enough because of what people got from it. And so it was just like, “I’m OK.”

Darla LeDoux:  And what was the power in that? Like in the midst of all of that having that happen?

Marlo Nikkila: In what part?

Darla LeDoux: Just having it fill up. And, you know, when you’ve got all this going on.

Marlo Nikkila: I, you know, the retreat filling up?

Darla LeDoux: Yeah.

Marlo Nikkila: Well, I mean it was a small retreat, but I was just I was energetically full at the retreat. That’s what I was…

Darla LeDoux: I gotcha.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah so. So it was, you know, the retreat, fire, breast cancer. And thankfully I feel like the retreat…

Darla LeDoux: I gotcha, so had you not been so filled up you might have experienced it differently.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it kind of extended the container for me to be in that.

Darla LeDoux: And I find that to always be divine, like the timing of things to always be divine. Like Spirit filled you up so that you could move through this to get that deeper knowing of your mission and your purpose. That’s what I hear. Isn’t that how it feels to you in retrospect?

Marlo Nikkila: Absolutely like it got me to a place where it’s like, oh I can experience this like fear- even shame, you know, as a healer and a vegan and doing all the things you should be doing so you don’t get cancer- and here I have breast cancer. I’m like “oh my gosh, you know, I don’t want to tell anybody, what are they going to think?” And then the message I got clearly was like, this is the time to let people in and receive in a way you’ve never received before.

Darla LeDoux:  I don’t want to tell anybody, because what will they think.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Yes.

Darla LeDoux: How often does that come up for, you know, for your clients. Like, transformation is messy, right. It doesn’t come-I mean sometimes it’s you know sweet and beautiful- but a lot of times it’s messy and it comes in the perfect message for us, but, you know, on the outside it might look like something different, right?

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Well and especially I think is as healers, you know, we’re kind of supposed to have it all figured out, or we’re not supposed to get sick, or we’re not supposed to have these kinds of experiences, because that even, like, came through when I thought I would have to go through chemo, and at a time that I was like willing and ready to be more visible and to step into my business and my purpose and my mission. And then I was going to have to do it bald and sick. You know, I was like, I had to do a whole other layer of like releasing by looking at myself in the mirror with a hat on as though I was bald and just say “are you still willing to show up even in this space.”

Darla LeDoux: Marlo,  that’s beautiful.

Marlo Nikkila: It was powerful and I mean, it still brings tears to my eyes because of how potent that moment was, because I knew at that time that I can make a decision and not be afraid that that was going to be the experience and then eventually, I mean, I got to a place where I chose not to do chemo, but it was not because I was going to lose my hair or I couldn’t show up. It was a clean, conscious choice.

Darla LeDoux: So juicy.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. So that’s what I mean about non-resistance. Going to where is the fear and where can I be ok with that fear and, I mean, am I willing to still show up.

Darla LeDoux: Yes, yes. I remember, I think you were around in my community when I injured my shoulder, and I remember having that same kind of shame of like- I’m writing on the flip chart like “this” holding my arm because I couldn’t lift it- and I had the same inner dialogue of like “ok, this is ridiculous,” but I felt, well if I were walking my talk I wouldn’t have this, right? Because it does, it brought healing to my soul, not my shoulder- I mean I healed my shoulder- but it brought healing to my soul to go through this experience. And when we have shame about that, then we can’t lead. We can’t truly lead, right, because if we’re feeling like “oh I can’t have any issues and lead transformation,” then we can’t really lead.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Or even hold the space for the transformation for other people as well is what I witnessed.

Darla LeDoux: Yeah, I love that you, you know, put on the hat, you looked in the mirror, and you got to this place where you knew “hey my mission is more important than any of the details of this.”

And, you know, that’s always been true for me is, you know, even if I have the momentary ego show up, or maybe longer than momentary, that my commitment to serving my mission is greater than whatever that fear would be of what people think, or how it’s going to go, or even holding on tightly to, like, the way things are. And that’s what I hear in that and I’m curious, what does that feel like for you? Because I think people will really relate to that- to know, like, I’m called to step up, like, that is my commitment and I will do it. Period. Like what was that internal moment like for you?

Marlo Nikkila: It was powerful. It was super powerful. There’s a lot of freedom in that. And it just felt solid and aligned. You know, just that I had the capacity like I trusted my own capacity to be able to show up, and to be able to move through whatever I needed to move through, and I got to choose how is going to move through it too. And I was “I am going to do it with peace” and “I’m going to do it with magic.” Those are the expectations around it. And so whatever comes up, it’s like I know I can do it and I can move through it.

And some things take me a little longer than others, but I’m willing to lean into the resistance and lean into the fear, lean into whatever is showing up, and still choosing how I’m going to be with it.

Darla LeDoux:  Yes, I love that, so you use the word clean. Making a clean choice, a clean, conscious choice and that a piece of being able to do that about your treatment, as an example, was being totally okay with whatever choice you knew in the moment you needed to make. So can you talk more about what clean means to you?

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah so, I’ve had it several like pivotal times and one was really making a decision about, you know, whether I was going to do chemo or not. But it’s also like, it shows up in my business, like choosing to not have people do retreats here was a clean, conscious choice, where I leaned into all the fear and the reasons why not to do it, and I leaned into all the fears and reasons why, and, you know, the reasons that are on either side. And so, to where there is nothing left on either side of that decision that was being fueled by fear, or resistance, or anything so that’s where it becomes very clean and very clear, because there’s no residue and there’s no stickiness around it.

Darla LeDoux: That really is very similar to the exercise in Chapter 1 of Retreat and Grow Rich, the book. Go get it on Amazon! Yeah!

Yes. That’s amazing. How does that leaning in to the fear-the reasons to do it and not to do it-how does that connect to this idea of really giving your emotions space? Because I know you have some some tools you’re gonna share with people today around keeping their energy aligned, and clean, and being able to move through emotions, so why is, for example, leaning through the fear- or whatever the emotion is- but a lot of times when we’re making big decisions it’s fear, why is that so important, you know, just to your energy field and cultivating that sacred space?

Marlo Nikkila: Well, I mean just from my own experience, and, you know, with people that I’ve worked with, it’s when we can actually be with the emotion where there’s no judgment and there is actually no resistance to the emotion.

There is, it actually gets to be seen, and actually gets to like come up to the surface and be released. But here’s the real subtlety thing, is that if we are with it to release it, we’re resisting it still. So it’s like we have to just be with it.

Darla LeDoux: With no agenda.

Marlo Nikkila: With no agenda, and just giving it the space to do whatever it needs to do at its own timing. I remember it was soon after- I did have a lumpectomy-so it was soon after, my mom had laughed at me, I went running on the trail that she and I went on a walk with, and there are people coming towards me, and I had all this stuff just with me, just like fear, terror, resentments, regret, happiness, joy, like everything. Like I’d never felt this intense energy before. It was everything.

And it was coming to the surface in a “oh no, I can’t do this, there’s people here and I’m out running,” so I, like, noticed I was stuffing it back down, and then I said “Marlo, you said you would never do that again. Let this come up and out.” And so I was like, “ok, I’m ready,” and I just let it come up and I wailed in a way that I’ve never wailed before. And I cried and it lasted for maybe 10 seconds, and then like, “oh,ok.” And then I went running again, and I didn’t care, because it was all about, I think I was caring too much about what other people are thinking that I was wanting to push it down again.

And so to me, it’s like, any time we are avoiding something or ignoring it-and I feel, like, especially in the manifesting world, and I did this for many years, it’s like “get to a higher vibration”- and when we do that it’s oftentimes in an avoidance or resistance to lower vibrations or the heavier energy. And it’s only if we can allow all of it to exist with no judgment- like in your levels of energy that you’ve taught us- you know, that, it’s the seventh layer where it all gets to be, it’s all in service, and it’s there and we can just be with it, and then it gives the space for it to do whatever it needs to do, which is oftentimes really seen. But again, we can’t-if we come to it with the idea that I want this to go away, you’ve already resisted.

Darla LeDoux: Right. I love that. I mean, it’s very subtle the way we might do that, right. To say, I, you know, let me let this come up so that it will be gone. Let me handle this so that… right. Let me get the lesson so that I can heal this, so that I don’t have to be embarrassed anymore.

Whenever there’s that all ulterior motive or…

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah, so that’s just what I’m paying attention to with, you know, and I’m getting better and better at it with everything. Because, you know, with big things in my face it’s kind of easier to do that, but it’s the subtle lines or the things I’ve been living with a lot longer, that I’m now spending more time with and saying “oh, you know, is this decision-am I working out because I don’t want to be X Y and Z? Or am I working out because I want to feel good in my body?” You know, so it’s just is an interesting dance and flow that I’m playing in right now and all of that, and teaching others how to see that for themselves.

And oftentimes- like, I created like the resistance game with some people I was working with, and they were telling their story, now I’m like “oh so we’re gonna play where you tell me what you think you’re resisting and then I’ll tell you what I think you’re resisting.” And it was just really fascinating pulling out things that they wouldn’t have seen. Like, one person felt like she was resisting prosperity and I was like actually you’re resisting survival because that’s what you don’t want to do. And we don’t want to be with the thing we don’t want, but until we are willing to be there with it, it controls us behind the scenes and then it’s not our clear, conscious choice, it’s always done from filtered energy.

Darla LeDoux: Wow that’s beautiful. So you have some tools for this. Can we play with that a little bit?

And I do want to let people know, I’m, as you know, as we’re recording this, I’m personally navigating- I have a funeral this week. My father in law passed and so I’m excited to play along with whatever you’ve got for us as well.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. For anybody who’s driving, just visualize doing this.

Darla LeDoux: Don’t close your eyes.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah, don’t close your eyes, and you keep your hands on the wheels because we’re using your hands. And, you know, our hands can be like magnets. And so what I want to share with everybody are handholds that you can do to allow yourself to be with stress in a different way. And so, when we are in stress a lot of the brain gets removed from the front of our head. So we’re gonna call it back to the front so that we can actually be with whatever we’re experiencing from a stronger, more solid place.

Darla LeDoux:  Say more about that. So whenever we get stressed, let’s think of an example, you said the energy moves from the front of our head.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah it will. So there’s that reptilian, the older part of our brain that’s in the back that’s more of the survival mode, so everything just kind of gets pulled back there.

Darla LeDoux: Is that in the amygdala?

Marlo Nikkila: I wish I was better well versed on the brain.

Darla LeDoux:  I’ll Google it later.

Marlo Nikkila: Oh, it’s just that I have a friend I’m co-leading a retreat with, he does more of the neuroscience stuff. But yeah, there is that part of the brain in the back, and it’s just when we are stressed, like, the brain, our way of being able to be with it and to make decisions, you know the blood just is not there anymore, so it’s calling it back. But also being with the energies of what we’re feeling so that they can do what they need to do.

And so to begin…

Darla LeDoux: And so, when it goes, when it leaves and we go into survival, we’re really not present to what we’re feeling.

Marlo Nikkila: We’re not present what we’re feeling, it’s harder to make decisions from that clean, conscious space that we were just talking about, and we actually can just stay in that spin, that cortisol spin, and just being stressed out, when really we can be grounded, more presence, more available.

Marlo Nikkila:  The cortisol spin. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been there.

Darla, LeDoux: Yeah. Well I’m even thinking about, you know, my morning, thinking of how did that feel when we had stress come up- and I won’t go into all of the details- but we have some, you know, people coming into town for the funeral and like what are we doing with them? Are we entertaining them or are they on their own? What, and really looking at- and my wife and I, we have a commitment to being very intentional about how we go through things. But then when your emotions are triggered, it’s a whole different ball game.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah, right, and you’re surrounded by other people’s emotions too. I mean like it’s, yeah…

Darla LeDoux: Yes. Yes. OK. So when we’re stressed.

Marlo Nikkila: Yes. So there’s- these are based on the different elements in Chinese medicine too, so on the worksheet that people have it’ll be connected to that- but the first one that I will share with you is winter, which is a water element, which we’re in right now. And it’s if you’re feeling a lot of fear, and so it’s being with the fear and allowing the space for courage and for trusting yourself to actually show up.

And so the first one is you’re just placing your hand on your head, and even if this is all you do, this is actually bringing blood to the front of your head. So just having your hands here, or your palm on your forehead is really healing. And you can do this in child’s pose, you can do this in bed, but then you’ll take your other hand for that fear piece and that ancient reptilian part of our brain, and you’ll just hold that just for a few breaths.

Darla LeDoux: Does it matter which hand?

Marlo Nikkila:  No. No it doesn’t. You can switch to- and there are different modalities actually that hold this. So what I love about the energy medicine practice that I have is that it brings in a lot of different techniques.

Darla LeDoux: Yeah yeah.

Marlo Nikkila: So there’s this one for fear, and then anxiety, which I suffer with a lot, and that’s on the top of your head like the widest part of your hands. You keep your other one on your palm around your head, and this is fire energy or summer. And this also is, when you’re feeling anxious, you can just hold your hands here. What this is doing is it’s letting it do what it needs to do to creating space for passion, inspiration, peace, and joy.

And then the other one is metal, so you keep your hand on your head and take your other hand and put it on top of your head. And metal is the season of autumn, but the energy of grief. This would be a really good one for you and Kimmi, and again just lying in bed here with your hand on top of your head and your other hand on top of your forehead.

And each one of these has sounds too. So since you’re going through some grief, just even doing all “S’s,” like letting air out of a balloon while you’re doing this is really helpful.

Yeah. So just letting yourself be with it.

And then there’s anger which is wood energy. So it’s the heels of your hands on the top of your cheekbones with your other fingers kind of draped over your forehead toward your hairline. And this is when you’re feeling angry. And this is just allowing yourself to be with that, letting it transmute into assertiveness, generosity, acceptance.

And I have all this written down on the little…

Darla LeDoux: Yes. So we’re going to give you a URL where you’ll be able to get images, especially if you’re on the audio-only version, you’re thinking what are they doing, we’ve got you covered.

Marlo Nikkila:  Yeah yeah. So it’s just a matter just kind of being with it, and feeling it, letting go.

Darla LeDoux: So the wood is anger and what season is that?

Marlo Nikkila: Oh that’s spring. Yeah. And then we have one more, which is earth energy.

This is really big for healers and it’s one I’ve had to spend a lot of time with because of this tendency to be over responsible for other people. And it also can come in the form of worry. But what it does, is like, brings in the balance into more compassion for yourself and to really honoring and feeling yourself first.

So that is with the heels of your hands on the tops of your cheekbones, underneath your eyes, and just covering your eyes with your fingers up towards your hairline. So this is bringing our over compassion that we have for other people and bringing it towards ourselves- that people can get our overflow and we’re not being overly responsible. And Earth is all the Equinoxes and Solstices is what it governs.

Darla LeDoux: Beautiful. Yeah. So talk a little bit- if someone is experiencing anger, for example, this will help transmute that energy. And what tips do you have for being present with it? Or how do those things work together? In other words, we want to be in non-resistance to the feeling, right, and yet, you know, if you’re going oh I’m trying to remember the anger one was at the top of the head. Anger was the side. Oh yeah. Like “ahhh” like yeah it is natural. Yeah. And if I’m thinking anger, that probably isn’t the correct thought. So can you talk a little bit about that? What to hold? Or do you hold space?

Marlo Nikkila:  You know, I think it can be whatever- you can think about what you’re angry about, for sure, and just let it be voiced, and seen, and felt, and just, again, let it just all come up.

Again, it’s, I think, trusting you’re safe and trusting that you have capacity to let this energy move through you. That’s been a really big thing and even thinking that anger tends to get this bad rap, you know, of like, “oh I shouldn’t feel anger or I don’t want to feel anger,” but it’s like, can you be with the anger so then your actions maybe don’t reflect the anger. You know, you’re not just spewing it out and, you know, making it so other people are affected by your anger.

So it’s just kind of being with it. And so, yeah, you can think about what you’re angry about, but you can also just breathe into it. Just being with the feeling and the anger and just, you know, be there for a few minutes until you feel like you can, you know, move on or move through. I mean basically, it’s moving through.

Darla LeDoux: And why are the hand movements so valuable?

Marlo Nikkila:  So they are neurovascular points, there’s two on our forehead, which is why, you know our hands go here, why we’re covering them in the anger one. So there’s just different neurovascular points. And I was looking up in the books I have on what is a “neurovascular point” and it didn’t explain that to me, so just know that that’s what they are and so there’s two points on the top of your head, two points to the back of your head, and so that’s why we’re holding it with the palm, because you’re covering those points.

And there’s even points here on your, where your collarbone comes together- that little soft place on your throat. Even just putting two fingers there calms the triple warmer and the triple warmer is what activates your fight, flight, or freeze. So even just holding our fingers here can also just kind of calm the nervous system, and calm that like survival thing that is actually overstimulated in our world right now.

Darla LeDoux: That one’s totally new to me. That feels amazing. Yeah.

Marlo Nikkila:  Yeah. I love that one.

Darla LeDoux:  I’ve done, you know, a variety of Donna Eden’s morning routines and had things clear so quickly, but I’ve never heard this one. That’ll be my new go to.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Nice.

Darla LeDoux: So talk a little bit about, what are some of the results that you’ve seen when people come to your space? Like you had the original vision to host retreats, right. Which you held to really strongly and sacredly, even when the world is, you know, kind of fighting for you to do it differently. You know, hustle or fill the rooms, or whatever it may be. You’ve really held this vision, and this sacred space, and so- and I know your first retreat was at a rental while you were still building your space- and so you really were concerned about how do I create that space there, but you were able to do that. What does that space give your clients? What’s the value?

Marlo Nikkila:  They’re able to just be present, take deep breaths, like, they feel like they’ve come home even if they haven’t been here before. They just, their whole nervous system just kind of, like, calms down and they’re able to just be in a space of non judgment, so whatever- they get to actually experience what that is- because they probably never been given that to them before, and they’re just really held and nurtured.

And they obviously get to connect with other people who like- it’s like they meet friends, like they hug each other right away, without having even met. Like there is something really special here. And, you know, this might be way out there, but there are fairies on our property, and so like, there’s magic here that happens.

And so people are able to tune into that energy here too, and one of the things that we’re very intentional about- like I feel like the property asked us to move here- and we had our entire five acres crystal gridded before we moved here. And so, we’ve created a vortex that people, like even people who don’t come to the retreat, or are even really aware, like they don’t want to leave. They’re like “oh I just feel so good here.” So just the space in general does that for them and that’s one reason I wanted to live in that too. So this is just as much for me and as it is for everybody who comes for the retreat, like that to me, it’s a lifestyle that I wanted.

Darla LeDoux: Yes. And the more people that model that lifestyle, whatever is aligned for you- it might not be aligned for everybody- but, you know, being connected to nature, connected to truth- that’s how I think of it- the more people who choose that, the bigger impact we have on the rest of society, right. Where people can go “oh wait, that’s possible? You mean I could opt out of…this concern about what everybody thinks or…”

Marlo Nikkila:  Yeah. Yeah it’s true. And when like, the people who come here, they live lighter and brighter, and they’re more playful. There is just this, you know, we’ve done some really deep work, but it’s not from a heavy place. So it’s like they can go into the world and just be, like, more of that, and that lights me up.

Darla LeDoux: Yes, that energy translates, right. And I think people can even feel it in this conversation, you know, and we have your sparkles in the background, and your nature out the window. Yeah, it transfers.

And what would you say to someone who knows that that type of energy and magic is part of their gifting, but they’re not really sure, like, can I really do something with that?

Marlo Nikkila: You know I think for me, it’s- I needed to be seen. I needed someone else to actually tell me that was a value, because I kept knowing that I wanted that, but I’m like who wants peace? You know, are they willing to pay for peace? Are people willing?

I even had an event that I went to where somebody said “well you can’t sell magic,” you know, and I’m like, “well yes I can.” I mean, because I’m talking about magic I’m like, it’s not just this, like, fun playful word, it’s like, I mean that. So it’s kind of like knowing that all of those things are just to like really own it more. I mean you say it beautifully in your book, and it’s just really allowing yourself to own it, and let yourself be seen. You know, the more that I am willing to be this in the world, the more people are showing up.

Darla LeDoux: Because everyone secretly wants magic.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah.

Darla LeDoux: Because they know they need their soul to be whole right.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Yes, I mean with my work with you, my work with Lisa Berkowitz, it’s- and even at her retreat that I went to, was probably the most pivotal time where I’ve really felt seen. Because before I felt like I was just this background kind of energy that was nice and people would, you know, enjoy it, but they wouldn’t really even know that it’s happening, because it’s can be really subtle and very gentle.

And I was at a dance, and we were doing dancing, and everyone is joyful, and very like exuberant, and big energy, and I’m like “oh here’s me with my soft, gentle energy” and I was supposed to be at the end dancing, and I got skipped over. And I had to sit with like do I say something? Actually, I’m ok with not being seen, you know, like all that. And then somebody pointed out like, “did you go?” and I said, “no,” like, I see you, we need your peaceful magic medicine here.

And it’s kinda like the savasana at the end of a yoga class, but it tends to be the one thing that gets left out of yoga or shortened. So I saw all these areas in our life where peace wasn’t being honored. But then when it was, I was able to step into it more firmly and more solidly.

Darla LeDoux: Amazing. That is such a beautiful example to close with for retreat leaders. First of all, we need to give ourselves the experience of attending retreats so we have that opportunity, and it also speaks to the magic that happens at retreat, that you happened to be with this particular group, that there was this big energy and yours was a contrast, and that it was needed. Like Spirit conspired for that experience.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. Yeah, it was perfectly laid out. I totally got the message.

Darla LeDoux: I love it. And if someone is listening and they’re thinking, well I can’t do my retreat until it’s all perfect, or until I’m perfect, or I’ve got it all sorted, you’re stopping that magic. Because it’s not all about you. Someone might come and the person sitting next to them is the person they need to meet. I mean, you met Lisa Burkowitz on my retreat. Like when I see you guys together I’m like “oh there’s magic there, ”like, get out of the way. Let it happen.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. And I have to say it’s such a beautiful thing to lead a retreat from that energy because you just let the magic happen. Magic need space. You know, just like…

Darla LeDoux: And non-resistance. We create, like, holding it so tightly.

Marlo Nikkila: Yeah. So I just love it, like, one of the things you shared from the very beginning is like therapy- less is more- and really allow the space to be there, and retreat, and give people an experience, and it really, it does create magic…naturally.

Darla LeDoux: So we’ll have to circle back to your magic you’ve created with Dewayne, and Kimmi and I have toyed around with doing a series on being couples in business, so perhaps we’ll have you back on to talk about that, because that’s a whole other realm.

Marlo Nikkila: It is.

Darla LeDoux: But I feel like we shared the perfect magic for today.

Marlo Nikkila:  Beautiful yeah, thank you so much.

Darla LeDoux: Thank you. And for those listening, Marlo’s website is -so perfect- you’ll actually get a download of visuals of the postures that we talked about and more detail about how they actually work to clear energy, to help you be with the energy that is with non resistance, and clear that out of the way so that you can hold that sacred space for your clients.

Thank you so much for sharing your energy with us today Marlo. And it just delights me to no end to see you shine. So thank you.

Marlo Nikkila: Well I owe a lot of this to you. And just the space that you’re holding, and have held for me, and all of us, who are stepping into doing this powerful, potent, necessary work.

Darla LeDoux: Yeah you’re welcome. OK. Love Fest. Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for watching and we’ll see you on the next episode.

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