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I just had this thought. I was lying in bed and I was like, “I’m not going to die until I choose to die.” We don’t die until our soul chooses to release from this life. And as I grew older, I looked back and I was like, “That’s pretty profound thinking for a seven or eight-year-old kid.”

– Veronica Wirth

Darla LeDoux:  Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Retreat and Grow Rich, the podcast. This is Darla LeDoux. I will be your host today for this episode where we’ll be talking about your branding and specifically, what it is to “brand transformation”. As a transformational leader, sometimes it can be tricky to “brand yourself” because you are changing and growing and evolving continually.

So today’s guest is an expert at that and holds space for some of today’s most innovative leaders to evolve their brand as they grow. And she’s also going to talk with us a bit about what it is to host individual retreats, or they’re often called VIP days in this world of transformational work, but we’re going to talk about what is it to hold space for one person and their vision to evolve. So welcome.

Veronica Wirth:  Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Darla LeDoux:  I’m so excited to have this conversation and have it recorded for all to learn from.

Veronica Wirth:  Hurray for technology!

Darla LeDoux:  Really, really amazing. So Veronica Wirth is the Founder of Evolvative, which is a new approach to branding, really taking into consideration the truth that we shift and grow as we lead and that we need to think about our branding and our messaging and how we’re showing up in the world as part of that evolution.

Veronica helps visionary leaders and coaches evolve into their greater purpose with a high vibe, next-level brand. She believes we are living in different times now, and things are changing and we’re really being asked to bring our highest gift forward in different ways than we ever have before. And we might find it doesn’t fit our current business model or our current brand, or it doesn’t fit into a formula that’s out there. And she really calls people to honor that vision.

Veronica has been a designer and a brander, along with a pastry chef, in her life’s maturity.

Veronica Wirth:  In another life.

Darla LeDoux:  But working with really big brands and within an agency and working with small businesses on their design, their branding, their websites, their graphics, all of that for years. And this is really the culmination of your work in this new way. So Veronica, tell us a little bit about your story and how you came to do this work.

Veronica Wirth:  Well, I set out to do it when I went into college. I knew that I wanted to be in the art and some kind of creative field, visual arts field. And I just loved the strategy behind the advertising and marketing and branding. So I went forward with that and learned the craft of all of that. And looking back now, it’s funny, I realized that I was actually doing the way that I work now. I was actually doing that back then, but I didn’t know that it was anything special and I didn’t call it anything. To me, it was just part of my design process. But I had, some people thought were annoying habits, which was if they wanted the smallest design project, I just need a logo, and not just a logo, but I need a logo or I need a little brochure. I had to know the entire big picture of their business and where they’ve been and where they’re going and why and all of the stuff. And people were like, “Why do you need to know all this?” And it’s like, “Because it informs every single thing I do.” So at the time, I wasn’t so self-aware of all of that, but looking back now, I laugh because I think, “Yeah, the seeds are sown through our lives of the things that we end up really doing, the way that we do them uniquely.”

Anyway, back to your question, so I worked in a family business, which was a bakery for many years and then I took a break to work in the entertainment industry for a while, designing sets and whatnot. So I was always in a creative area, but I was really stretching my wings and seeing where I wanted to go. And then because I had roots in the food industry, I circled back and ended up doing pastry in a more serious way, becoming a pastry chef for a number of years, quite a few years.

And then when the economy changed, you know how the universe works, how spirit works, we get some times a little kick in the rear end when we don’t listen to, I think you just wrote about this, when we don’t listen to the cotton ball, right? We get a brick. And I had really been burning out in the pastry world. I love the work, but it was very hard in other ways. And I wasn’t listening to that. I was all about succeed and make the money and go, go, go and push, push, push. And I pushed my body really, really hard and I was incredibly, incredibly fried and stressed out, but I didn’t listen. So I got laid off. They took away my position and just eliminated it with no notice. So I was out, and this is during the economic downturn.

So of course, I wasn’t able to find another job equivalent and I had to retool and rethink. So it really gave me some soul-searching time and circled back to just by chance started circling back, doing small things, favors for friends of design. And I just felt this flush of recognition like, God, I miss this. I really miss this. Helping people on a more intimate level, and really helping them essentially which is helping them get out there, helping them represent themselves in a true way.

So anyway, I started my Design Bistro shortly after that, and then grew through that process to really embrace more and more, bringing my spiritual life, which I had been nurturing ever since my young years. And finally, bringing that into my business and that’s when things really cracked open for me. And it’s now been a process of moving even farther away from the nuts and bolts, the websites and the logos and all of that. I still have my hands in that at times, but really owning where my brilliance lies, which is my intuitive gifts and my visionary gifts and really the ability, that big picture ability to really feel what people are sort of exuding between the lines, even if they’re not saying it in words and then be able to translate that in a visual way.

And just the more that I bring in now I’m bringing in more and more of the spiritual guidance, co-creating with spirit, peace with my intuition. And I feel like as I bring those aspects more and more into my work now, those muscles become stronger and stronger. So I’m getting even more insights and intuitions for people. I’m able to really help them on a deeper level.

Darla LeDoux:  So it sounds like-

Veronica Wirth:  And it’s so fun! 

Darla LeDoux:  You talked about the way you would do design. When you had just a little thing to do, you needed to know the whole story and the whole background. It sounds like that was a little bit of foreshadowing for the work that you’re doing now in terms of how you actually work. We’ll get more into branding in a little bit, but when you work with a client, you use the word, read between the lines about what they’re exuding. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Veronica Wirth:  Yes. Let’s see, the easiest way… Because a lot of times, I just have a way of questioning people to follow the thread of what they’re really passionate about. And sometimes, it’s hard for people to articulate, myself included, sometimes, it’s hard to really articulate things that we feel or sense. And when we’re really in our head about trying to figure out our brand or figure out a problem or figure out our marketing, sometimes, those are the pieces that … it’s not that we don’t have the vocabulary for it, but I think that it’s kind of like, another level. And somebody can be saying, “I want to reach this goal and this goal and this goal,” but through talking with them and teasing through things, I can feel like there’s something else. I can feel there’s something deeper and starting to get them to talk about that. And it’s really like following the breadcrumbs. What’s really going on? What do you really want? Yeah, you want this A, B, and C goal, but what do you really want below that? What does your soul want? What do you really want to create here on a much deeper level? Not just from the mind, from the logical mind or from the ego mind?

Darla LeDoux:  So I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing your brilliance, both as your coach and helping you bring this skill as a shaman into your work, but also as a client. And I know that there is so much more available for us as leaders when we are tapping into these other realms and other dimensions. So I know when we met, you were a secret shaman possibly.

Veronica Wirth:  A closet shaman [laughs].

Darla LeDoux:  There might be certain parts of your life, or certain people in your life who knew this about you, but it wasn’t common knowledge within your business, that part of what you do is really shaman in the future of someone’s business. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with shamanism and how that’s influenced how you show up?

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah. I think that just on a very basic level, that was really my learning about energy and really understanding on very deep levels that everything is energy and everything is energy first before it’s anything else. This is how the universe creates, right? This is how planets come into existence, you know? It’s quantum physics. So that piece, definitely I discovered there and became a knowing in me very, very early in my life. It’s also given me a way to really face the depth of my being. I guess it’s called on me to really be sort of a warrior, to be courageous. And that came forward at a very young age for me personally. And I’m sure everyone’s experience is different for them, but for me, I just connected so deeply with it and particularly, the native American culture and shamanism is rooted in that culture.

Darla LeDoux:  So even at a really young age, can you say more about that?

Veronica Wirth:  Well, I think I knew. In fact, somewhere, I still have the calendar. I had an astrological calendar I think when I was seven or eight, or something, on the wall. And I remember I woke up, I just had this thought, I was lying in bed and I was like, “I’m not going to die until I choose to die.” We don’t die until our soul chooses to release from this life.” And as I grew older, I looked back and I was like, “Wow! That’s pretty profound thinking for a seven or eight-year-old kid.” And as I reached my teenage years, I just immersed myself in everything that I could find that was on the market. And the people around me that knew this deeper spiritual knowing that was separate from religion. And I was going on vision quests by myself when I was 18, 19, 20- all through my 20s, climbing against everyone’s wise words. What do you think you’re doing? I drive up to Yosemite and I throw a bunch of beef jerky in my backpack and have a mat and a knapsack and it gets below freezing at night and off I trek miles back into the woods and did a vision quest for days with nobody. Nobody really knew where I was. It was nuts in a logical world.

Darla LeDoux:  But you knew?

Veronica Wirth:  But I knew. So nature was a huge teacher for me in that way, and I continue. I just realized this is a part of my soul. This is a part of who I am as a being. I have this deep yearning to push into the unknown, to push the edges of what I know. And it’s funny, I can be so timid in certain areas in life, like silly, mundane areas. And then in this area, I’ve always been incredibly brave. When I was younger, I wasn’t even thinking about it in those terms. I just was like, “I have to do this. I have to know. I want to know. I want to understand. I want to experience.” I didn’t want just mental knowledge. I wanted experience. I wanted to experience the sublime. What is God? All the big questions. And I was just driven. So I don’t know if that answers your question, but-

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah, it’s amazing.

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah. So that started from that point, was just a whole life trajectory of this constant spiritual questing for me that never ever until, you know, really recently merged with my professional life.

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah. Let’s talk about that. So I want to talk about this, bringing this spiritual part into your business and the process of merging those. But first, Veronica, you said something that I think other people might relate to that I really want to underline. You said, “I can be so timid in some areas, but in this area, I’ve been incredibly brave.” And I want to underline that because I think a lot of people who are drawn to this work of transformation and drawn to the work of retreats and really know that they’re called to be a visionary or a thought leader in some way might also have this experience of themselves as being quiet or timid or like a different type of leadership than what we historically think of as like, the masculine dominant type of leadership.

Can you talk a little bit about this quiet courage and this inner knowing, like “I’m meant to find these answers”, or “I’m meant to push the boundaries here?”

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I’ll go into it in a second, but the clearest distinguishing thing that I can say, and that I have come to know over the years is that it’s often, and I’ll preface this by saying, I classify as a typical introvert, I would say, and also, HSP, highly sensitive person. So there’s those qualities I think, and I do find a lot of people that you’re describing share some or if not, both of those. But what really has become extremely clear to me is that the quiet groundswell in me that was, I need to do this, I need to know this, I need to experience this. And now, I need to share this. So introverts, are you listening? Is the truth. That is the deep truth of my soul. The sort of mundane fear and, often, paralyzing, I will add, just so that people understand, and especially around being seen and being visible with this deeper knowing that even though it, at times feels insurmountable, that fear and more real than anything else, my knowing is that that fear is actually false. That it’s not truth. It’s a mechanism. And it’s my choice as a spirit, as a soul, to choose the power that I place in that fear, in that false fear.

Darla LeDoux:  Do you find that many of your clients and the type of people who are really pushing the edges have a fear around that’s past life-oriented or who we are as an evolving soul and the impact we’re here to make?

Veronica Wirth:  I do actually, and I can speak definitely for myself that that’s something that I was guided to discover. And it explained a lot to me that didn’t have any … some pieces have bearing in this life for sure, but it explained layers to me that I couldn’t overcome with just dealing with sort of going through and healing this particular lifetime. So to your question, yes, I believe that those are those often more entrenched fears and resistances, which is essentially scarring on some part of your soul’s journey that may be beyond this particular incarnation. And as a soul, often, we’ll repeat particular patterns in order to heal. And sometimes, we’re not just healing ourselves! Sometimes, we’re healing our lineage. There are a lot of facets to that and it’s very unique and individual to each person. So yeah, there’s that piece to take into consideration, definitely. And to honor, to really honor that, and being able to work in that area, it creates an opportunity to free ourselves in a conscious way, like bring it from the unconscious into the conscious and free us of that so that we can actually show up out of our own free choice as a complete whole being to shine the way that we really want to and came into this life desiring to be.

Darla LeDoux:  So… I want to talk a little bit about the retreats that you do with your clients. So you’ve got clients who are really committed to having this courage that you had even from an early age, taking yourself on vision quests and trusting, like that inner curiosity of being to lead you wherever it will lead you. And I know, as your client, I feel that sense as well. I was definitely not aware or brave as a kid. However, that’s my commitment in my business is to really honor where I’m being guided and what I’m being called to do. So, I know those are the people that you attract. Talk a little bit about your decision to host retreats and really VIP experiences for your clients. And how has that shifted from the design services that you provided at Design Bistro to this new way of being a business shaman and a brand shaman?

Veronica Wirth:  You definitely were instrumental in helping me crystallize this, Darla. I feel like it was this constant process of distilling down what was it, what were the parts of what I was doing with my clients that I loved the most, where I felt the most plugged in, the most deeply moved, all of the really good juicy stuff. And also just as important, the most inflow, the most at ease, the most in my essence, like my own me, just as me, showing up as me. And not feeling like I had to work at something. I’d try really hard and make something happen.

So it was really that. It was really starting to tease apart every single thing that I do in the course of working with my clients and really look at like where? Where’s the stuff that really lights me up? Where do I feel the most connected and the most authentically me? And start to expand that. And it was just the most fun! That was always the part that I loved working with people, was really getting into the magic, was digging. I feel almost, sometimes, like a bloodhound, like I can smell that deeper nugget, that jewel inside that is giving little hints that it wants to come forward.

And I’m thinking of our retreat, Darla. I could hear that there was something more and we kept feeling like, “Yeah, but I’m landing on it. We’re on it!” And I was like, “There’s something still there,” and it’s like a bulldog with a scent. I’m going to get at that. And we all felt it when it happened, right? It was like, that’s the thing! That’s it. So it was like the key that unlocked the entire process. So anyway, to your question, I digress slightly, but-

Darla LeDoux:  So yeah. You’re looking at all of the things that really light you up. And I love the way you said it, “As opposed to the things that are like, I got to work real hard and make something happen,” which we’re trained, that’s what work is.

Veronica Wirth:  Totally.

Darla LeDoux:  So we tend to bring those things along because it feels comfortable, like how we were taught work should be. But you really looked at where the magic was and decided to host these individual retreats.

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah. And the other piece to that, Darla, there’s actually two things I want to say. One is, the ‘working hard’ and the ‘making things happen’ piece. I think often, and you and I have had this conversation before, but I think often, at least I did, I’ll speak for myself, attach that to my value, like that’s the most valuable stuff because it’s what I can charge for.

So that’s a big shift that’s happened for me is that actually, my magic is my most valuable thing. And the other side of hosting the retreats is that I have a very luxurious sumptuous aspect to me that’s another part of my being. I love beautiful, wonderful places and experiences and surroundings and food. And this was a part that came out when I was in pastry! I love sharing that with people, and I love creating that for people. I want to have you over and feed you and have the most beautiful music and most comfortable chairs and create beautiful experiences. And I love travel! It’s like, if I could weave all of those things together, I’d be on cloud nine.

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah. And so you have.

Veronica Wirth:  And so I have, and continue to. And yeah, it’s an ever-unfolding, ever-evolving, shall we say, process. It’s just … Yeah.

Darla LeDoux:  So I’m more than happy to share and give people an inside. As someone who’s experienced one of these individual retreats, I want to start by, was there any fear of doing this?

Veronica Wirth:  Oh, yes! Absolutely.

Darla LeDoux:  You create for someone a holistic experience. I know I’m not even remembering all the details, I just remember the magical aspects, but I think I had a couple of nights. I know I stayed an extra night, a couple nights at a beautiful venue and we met for two days. And I’m thinking it was a half day and a full day. Isn’t that funny that I don’t remember any of those details?

So I’m going to start by underlining people who overthink the details. The energy matters more than the details, and people remember how they feel, not so much all of the specific features of what you offer. But talk a little bit about how you designed it and what were some of the concerns and considerations?

Veronica Wirth:  Well, my number one intention, I guess, was how can I create every aspect so that it’s most conducive to the uncovering of what we want to find, what we want to see come forward? So in my mind, that means no friction, no stress. We can all relate to the times we felt the most pampered and cared for and comfortable and warm and happy and well-fed. And everything around us is aesthetically pleasing to us. That means you have all your energy free, than to be present, fully present. So really, that’s really what I kept coming back to with every aspect. And for each of my clients, I take into consideration the place, the venue. Is it fitting? There are a lot of factors. But I’m thinking about your personality and what would you like and what kind of experience, what kind of things do you need to feel that way?

We checked in with you to make sure you had particular things that you needed to feel cared for every day. And then I have my team there as well. So they’re working in the same arena and understand energy the same way. And then we are all there to help support that space and that brings to mind also, creating the energetic container for this work to happen, and that’s the spiritual part that I do highly consciously. And well before our retreat, I start setting space and holding a container for that and continue to do that through the retreat and after.

Darla LeDoux:  Share with people a little bit about this because it looks different for everybody, what holding the energetic container looks like and means. I think we have all our clients do human design, so I think of it from a human design standpoint. What are the energies that each individual has that they bring when they’re a host?

And for me, creating the energetic container looks different than for you creating the energetic container, which would look different then whoever is listening, creating the energetic container. And one of the things that is so cool about the way that you work, Veronica, is you’re really tuned in to your guides. And I think the earlier conversation we had about, you’ve been developing this relationship since you were a kid with being able to hear and listen and push the boundaries of what it means to be guided. So what I see as part of setting the container, the way that you do it is you’re actually speaking to your guides and your client’s guides and collaborating to create the most conducive experience. Can you talk a little bit about that? I know you do some journeying beforehand and then you do some physical setting of the container. What feels appropriate to share with people about your magic, because everyone’s magic will be different?

Veronica Wirth:  Yes, definitely. Mine in particular, yes, definitely. My team and I actually, as I started inviting in this work to my current work, I actually was given very specific guides just for the work aspect of my client’s work in addition to my own team that I use for my own, for everything, my own spiritual work as well as all the work that I do, which is an amazing gift. So yeah, it’s setting the energy beforehand. I physically do ceremony.

Darla LeDoux:  Okay. I’m going to stop you because you said, which is an amazing gift, which you said really quickly. So that’s an amazing gift.

Veronica Wirth: Yes, yes.

Darla LeDoux:  What is it like for you to be able to use that gift and play with it and actually share it with clients?

Veronica Wirth:  It is profoundly rewarding. I also just feel like I want to address too, that there are moments of, I don’t know, fear might be a strong word, but maybe a little bit of, there’s a hesitancy too at moments, because this is the most private work to me, in my life. So I’m unfolding and putting out for someone else to experience something that is the closest to my heart literally. So it’s highly sacred. Highly, highly sacred to me. I would just say I exercise a lot of discernment in who I work with. That’s the bottom line. And-

Darla LeDoux:  Say more about that. I think that’s really helpful for people.

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah. And again, this really comes down to trusting your intuition. For me, trusting my own intuition, trusting that initial gut hit. We all know that feeling, right? You override it sometimes and then you look back and you’re like, “Dang it. I was right! I had it!” It was the tiniest whisper, but it was spot on. So it’s been a lifetime of learning to listen to that and honor it and not negate it. So that’s huge. And for your audience, the people that are listening, yes, trust that. Learn to trust that and exercise that trust in your life in every … Like, do I buy the green bag or the yellow bag? All the stuff, right? [laughing] Is this the right relationship for me? Little to small, spirit is always there. And your body is your most magical and finely tuned instrument so let it work for you.

So we’re feeling energy, we know how we feel about people when we meet them. It’s always a little more challenging online sometimes, but you know the reads you get on people trust that. And I could go more, but I think that’s the key.

Darla LeDoux:  So you’re bringing this most sacred work and you have this relationship with your guides that really help set the stage for people to access. We’ve talked about this quite a bit. Really, they’re accessing the future of their brand through their work with you.

Veronica Wirth:  Yes.

Darla LeDoux:  That’s how think about it, right? So I think of time as a continuum and it’s all energy and we can reach out and access the future. We can create the future via this skill. Yet sometimes, our ego tries to create the future, right? I want to force a future where I’m this different person. But what you do is you actually help someone access their soul aligned future of their business and bring it into the present.

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah, and this goes back to everything is energy. How I see it is definitely we are in time is spatial. It’s a construct, right? It doesn’t exist. So everything is in the now, all timelines. And in my experience, your soul has come here with certain objectives, certain things that it wants to experience complete offer. And those things are in your energy field and the specifics of those things start to form up as your soul is calling for the next steps in your life of your human experience. So it’s tapping in. I believe we all have this ability, but it’s really tapping into what is that? This is where my skills come into play. I have ways to help guide us through that and really start to connect with that. What is that forming up on that energetic level? It’s sort of what is rising to the top energetically of what your soul most wants to start to express next.

And I always saw it as like a north star. It’s like you sort of pinpointed up ahead and then you start to magnetize yourself toward that. Like, okay, how do we start to flesh that out? What does that feel like? How can we start to bring you energetically to that space so that you can actually start to feel what that’s like now? And basically then, we’re building your brand to resonate with that future piece that your soul is calling for, not where you are physically now because that’s already … It’s done. So it’s-

Darla LeDoux:  Right. So how does the retreat help you do that?

Veronica Wirth:  It’s like a vortex of energy. It’s a place where we get to bring it all in and swirl it around right into the center and help it crystallize. And it’s a way to start to really bring and anchor it in the physical. That’s probably a little bit abstract, but when we start to bring people together and you start putting words to it and we start parsing it out and speaking of it and clarifying and clarifying and clarifying, then it starts to become more real. Does that help?

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah. When I think of retreat, I think of the experiential. It’s like giving someone the experience of it even for a short time, right? Having that felt sense can be an anchor to come back to because I know how easy it is to then go back to life and go, “Yeah, that sounds great, but who am I really to do that?” Or, “Spirit, you got the wrong girl here,” [laughs] right? So I think it’s the felt experience of that energy space that’s so juicy

Veronica Wirth:  Definitely. Yeah, because once your body has felt that, once your physical being has tasted what that feels like, it’s that first anchoring of it in the physical. And you’re exactly right, then you have the memory of that. You have the knowing of it. It’s not just an idea, it’s an actual knowing. And we do things in the retreat to help you embody that more. Just all in service to anchor, anchor, anchor as much as possible or embody as much as possible so that, yeah, you’re prepared when you go back into the real world because we leave there on a very high energetic high because we really have swirled up that energy into that next level. So, yeah.

Darla LeDoux:  Amazing. So talk about why is it, Veronica, that traditional branding, so you’ve worked in agencies and done traditional branding and design and kind of the old approach, why is it that that falls short for where we need to go as transformational leaders?

Veronica Wirth:  Well, it’s worked really well for regular business and I think one of the main reasons is because it essentially comes mostly from the logical mind. You’re looking at what you have in your business, you’re looking at what goals you want to make happen. So it’s strategic thinking, it’s thinking, and that’s all great! It has its place, for sure.

But the thing is, is that as I came forward, came out as more of a spiritual entrepreneur and started really engaging more with spiritual and visionary entrepreneurs, they’re doing business, we’re all doing business differently and we don’t work only from our head. We’re not serving our clients only from our head and we’re not running our business like that. Our work by its nature calls us to bring our deepest self forward, our heart, our compassion, our intuitive gifts, in many cases, our spirituality or our beliefs about the universe, all those sort of “softer pieces” that don’t have a space in the old way of business.

I’ll call it the old way because I think it’s on its way out. So it just seems clear to me that if you’re going to brand, if you’re going to start talking about someone’s brand who’s working in a much more holistic way and bringing all these deeper aspects of themselves, for argument’s sake, I’ll say more feminine aspects, of themselves forward, branding in a more masculine, logical mind like left brain way doesn’t really make sense to me, or it falls short. It was like really, the more I worked with people, it was like, it’s really the most important thing is all of this other work that we do. It’s tapping into that deeper space and looking at your vision from a deeper point and letting that be part of the whole conversation and the process. And now, really letting it lead, which is how we’re all learning to do our businesses, right?

Darla LeDoux:  So let’s say someone is working as a coach, for lack of a better word, and they know they want to change their audience. They’ve completed their work with the audience they’ve been working with and they know there’s someone else they’re meant to serve. How would old branding approach that versus Evolvative branding?

Veronica Wirth:  Well, the traditional branding, you would do an ideal client assessment and you would look at demographics and you would also look at psychographics, which is where they hang out, what are their hobbies, what do they love to do? Some of them get into what are their fears and you’re trying to get into your client’s head, and that’s all fine. But from my approach, I back up several steps and really start with you. I want to understand what’s not working, why isn’t it working right now? What is that about the client, and what is that really reflecting in the shift that’s going on inside of you? Like our outward business, right? It’s just a reflection of what’s changing and shifting in us.

So, I want to understand on a deeper level what’s the shift that’s going on? And then again, big picture, right? What’s really wanting to come forward? Where is the energy not aligned and why? And what’s really actually wanting to come forward? My mind would go, let’s say for example, it could be different for everybody, but for example, I would say, I can imagine you have some deeper aspects of yourself that you want to bring to your business and that’s actually going to translate into different offerings, or a different way of running your business, or a different way of, maybe, it’s slightly shifting your business model. And that means that you’re going to be needing to work with different kinds of people and having a different conversation. And that conversation is probably going to have to include getting vulnerable and starting to tap into this…  Usually in my experience, this deeper peace, whatever that is for the client is the gold. Like the other stuff, it has importance, but it’s not the most important thing. So it’s like, “What conversation do you want to have? How do you want to feel?” And then what kind of situations can we imagine creating that is going to create that for you is going to give you the environment so that that can actually come out and play freely? And then if you can embody that energy of that next thing, then by the law of physics and law of attraction, you’re going to start to attract new people as you find ways to transmit that vibration, and that can happen for you and your website and the very physical parts of your branding through the way that you are and the way that you “be” in the world, the way that you speak and the conversations you have, et cetera.

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah. Wow. So it’s energetic first rather than logical?

Veronica Wirth:  Yeah.

Darla LeDoux:  Yeah, the logical is-

Veronica Wirth:  That was a really long answer to that question. Sorry.

Darla LeDoux:  The logical supports the energetic, is what I’m hearing, not the other way around?

Veronica Wirth:  Exactly. I feel for me, in my mind, the logic comes at the end because we’re not trashing the logical mind, it has a lot of gifts to offer us, but it just doesn’t want … we don’t want it driving the bus. It’s back there as part of your team that can help you when you’re ready for that part of your business. But the rest of the stuff has to be in alignment first and that energetic piece as you said.

Darla LeDoux:  Amazing. Veronica, you have a resource for people who feel aligned with this idea of, “I know I’m a visionary, I know I have tremendous courage to birth what’s really true and aligned for my soul in the world, and I need a new brand to represent that.” Can you tell people about the visionary guide?

Veronica Wirth:  Certainly. I’ve put together a visionary guide for entrepreneurs exactly like you, and it’s really sort of my compilation of, just all of the aspects that are really kind of what we’ve been talking about, Darla, that are different in this way of branding. And I believe this is really the future of branding for our world and for businesses. It’s the honor, this deeper part.

So I’ve broken it down into a number of chapters, and just go into each area just to help presence people and start to spark some new ways of looking at something. New ways of looking at this process, new ways of looking at their own business and inspire. And it’s kind of helped shape that and help them understand a little better really how powerful this can be really.

Darla LeDoux:  Amazing. So people can find that over at And they can download that and they’ll also get on your list and be able to be in communication with you. And if someone feels pulled to have their own retreat with you, which is amazing, I highly recommend, how would they go about that? Is there a way to contact you on that site?

Veronica Wirth:  There is, and they can email me directly at if you want to reach out directly to me, that’s fine, from this podcast. But yes, you can certainly reach me on my site and message me and we can set up a call and talk further.

Darla LeDoux:  Awesome. Thank you so much, Veronica, for being here and sharing your wisdom and also, for who you’ve been in my journey as I birthed my new brand of sourced and sourced experience. And I’m thrilled and delighted and I have my crystal that I got on our retreat here with me at all times.

Thank you! Just thank you for showing up and using your gifts in this way and I’m excited for anyone who chooses to retreat with you.

Veronica Wirth:  Thank you. It’s an honor. Absolutely. And thank you for having me. It’s been so fun. I love these conversations.

Darla LeDoux:  I know. More to come. Have a great day everyone and we’ll see you in the next episode.

Veronica Wirth:  Bye.

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